Smith's Patent Door Spring

6/15/2015

The Smith's in the picture is a mid Victorian era floor spring that uses the action of the cam wheel to push the horseshoe shaped springs apart, making for an extremely reliable and durable mechanism.

The Smith's company can be traced to 1770 when Mr Smith set up a small engineering company on the back of his invention for a door closing device at 69 Princes St, London.

This door spring was continually improved upon, coming in many guises, eventually branded as the Janus Patent Door Closer. In 1878 production of the 'JANUS' moved to a new factory in Battersea known as the Janus works.

1892 Advertisement for the Patent Adjustable 'Janus' Door Springs (Ad also shows the Patent Battersea Door Spring & Patent Hydraulic Spring and Check.

Archibald Smith had numerous inventions to his name and numerous business partners to market and produce his inventions, including involvement with The Express Lift Company (OTIS at this time) for which he invented the V pulley and the forerunner to the car lift (Smith, Major & Stevens).

1868 Advertisement.

24 Comments

Jess the door closer doctor

6/16/2015 11:02:58 am

Hello there, enjoyed reading about the Smiths, this is the 4th or 5th type of spring I know about now,

thanks for uploading!! didn't you do a similar one for Knowles church?? (same springs used) but church one had a hydraulic cylinder down the middle,

really goes to show that old hardware isnt always meant to go in the scrap heap, many old victorian era closers can last a lifetime if taken care of properly by those who have the knowledge in what to do and can get parts.

you never bore me with the blog, keep the good articles coming!!

-Jess the door closer doctor

Midlands Floor Springs link

6/17/2015 05:42:34 am

Thanks again for your comments Jess. The springs in the Smiths are quite a lot smaller than those found in the Leader/Britannic/Leo.

The diameter of the Smith's springs are about 8 inch across maximum. The Britannics are about 12 inch across maximum.
I do have many spare parts, although I do sometimes struggle and need to either machine parts my self or have them made up. It is getting more and more difficult to find the parts as I am sure you understand.

You are most definitely right though the floor springs of old were definitely built to last and with care and a little maintenance they will out perform their modern equivalents, in my opinion of course. I cannot imagine a Geze still working in a hundred years, with or without any maintenance, can you?

Jess The Door Closer Doctor

6/17/2015 10:50:48 am

Hello MFS,

although same principal, but basic way of operating is same with Smiths and Leader/Britannic/Leo. accept one has hydraulic dampening and the other dont

that is right, as some closers become more rare, it is getting harder and harder to find the replacement parts to be able to fix them, and last resort is to get a machine tool maker to fabricate the parts to be able to keep the antiques working for many years to come, because of this, one brand that makes stopped supplying a list of authorized repair agencies that an end user can send the closer for internal adjustments/repair if needed.

now if I ever come across a Leader/Britannic/Leo or the Smiths, I will know what I'm looking at if I was to measure across the spring, (or get a question on one!)

now as for the modern closers, with today's society, they think of closers as disposable, they believe in a throw-it-away-but-a-new one mindset, they figure they earn more money if they encourage a person to buy a new closer with a 25 year warranty for lets say 80 pounds compared to getting it rebuilt for 50 (not real prices) and have a 2 year warranty with the repair shop who serviced it last. if you really think of it, its just more $$$$$ for the brand. if you really get into it, how the modern brands work, some brands that are owned by parent companies, (will not name them here) they only care about is the shareholders who buy and sell their stock, its all having to do with $$$$ and they do not care too much about the end user/owner, or getting the closer FIXED, this is why if you called for help for any rack-an-pinion closer or anything newer then 25 years old, you will be told to buy a new one, if its got a problem and less then 25 years old, they might exchange it with another as it may be under warranty and the one you sent them is scrapped.

what next, our cars/vans/trucks/motorbikes?? be told to buy a new car when the car needs an oil change or a tire(tyre) changed?? so yea, I believe in fixing it, not scrapping it when something goes wrong (car or closer, any thing mechanical) cheaper then buying new and still have same quality part replaced.

ideas, suggestions for improvement to door closer products......ignored...... I guess they like to make it be the hard and long way to work on their product, one brand asked me what I would like to see in a closer (suggestions).....ignored again! they ask for suggestions from users/experts, but sure as heck don't try to work on it to make life easier for the door guys or research what they can do or give you any feedback other then point out the star features of the brand/type/series.

now what MFS does, less closers/parts in the scrapheap and its a happy end user/owner that is in mind, not shareholders!!

as for GEZE, I am sure that there will be a time when there will be nobody left making the springs or the hydraulic cylinders for their TS-360 (singlo) but if you think of it, it may not be GEZE directly supplying them in the future/present time, all takes is a talented machinist or anyone who knows how to manufacture auto dampers (shock absorbers) I am sure will have little to no problem with manufacturing the hydraulic cylinders for TS-360's.

-Jess the door closer doctor

Mimi

1/16/2016 04:14:19 pm

Thank you so much for doing this blog. Ive lived in a four story Victorian terrace in west London since I was 5 years old. We have the 'Smith and Turner' door springs completely untouched, from I guess when the were installed, when they built the house in the late 1800s they are still going strong and work perfectly. They are on two internal doors after main front door. I've always wanted to know their history.

I need to give the brass top plate a good polish tho. I'm now intrigued to visit the courts of justice to have a look at theirs.

Wish I could post a picture.

Many Thanks

Rod link

1/16/2016 04:45:35 pm

Hi Mimi,

| am thrilled that you have enjoyed the blog. If you want to send me the pictures i would be more than happy to post them on the blog. If you are able to, a shot of the cover plate, a shot beneath the cover plate and a shot of the internals would be the best. If this is not possible any pics and info you care to share would be great.

John

8/6/2017 08:54:41 am

Thanks for the info. Do you know anyone in Australia who can service a Smith pattern swin door? The spring has collapsed so that the door has droppedout from the upper peg.
Thanks
John

Rod Fathers link

8/6/2017 09:36:46 am

Hi John, I really appreciate your interest and your comment. I do have one or two contacts I will try on your behalf for you, I do not know how close they are to you however. If not and you can send me your Smiths I am more than happy to do the repair here. Have you any pictures you can send of the problem with your Smiths, as said I will help and advise in any way I can?

Paul Coope

4/24/2016 07:10:32 pm

We live in a old school house in Moore near Warrington built 200 years ago and have a floor spring with broken horse shoe rings. The manufaturer is Smith Spring and the model number is 2860. Can anyone please advise me if it is possible to get hold of replacement parts or do you have to get them made. Any help would be much appreciated. Best regards Paul

MFS link

5/1/2016 01:42:38 pm

Hi Paul,

After months of negotiating, waiting, set backs etc we have now available sets of springs for all sizes of SMITHS and similar floor springs. We also have limited parts available, pivot, claws etc.

Are you able to send a picture of the brass plate and beneath to ensure we can supply/fit the right size?

Paul Cooper

5/2/2016 09:28:04 am

Please find attached photographs of Smiths Floor Spring cover plate and insides of same. Kind regards Paul

Nigel Woor

3/18/2017 11:58:51 am

As a National Trust Room Guide at Wimpole Hall Cambridge there is a ornate brass covered Smith's Patent door closer ref.no. I0357 at the top of grand staircase entrance to the Soane Vestibule - the door it operated has been removed ages ago as the two existing doors in this doorway are at the extremities of the doorway entrance making the Smith door closure redundant. Do you have any further detail on product for inclusion in the NT room guide notes. Thank you for your time.

Rod Fathers link

3/19/2017 11:23:40 am

Dear Nigel,

Yes of course I can provide you some information on your Smiths. Is it possible to send a picture of the Smiths in question, for identification purposes, my blog and for a database I hope to create for historians, architects, myself and any other interested parties?

Best

Rod Fathers

Dann

1/12/2018 07:10:07 am

Hello from Australian, I am trying to find out how to remove the blessed door from the door spring and am getting a little frustrated. The Smiths Patent door spring looks like your pictures above. That is five almost round springs attached to what looks like a horse shoe. Ahhhhhhhhh please help.Also Do you have these parts that I could buy from you. With thanks in advance.

Best Dan

Ps was in your gorgeous country just recently. Just beautiful...!

Rod Fathers link

1/12/2018 07:54:08 am

Hello from the UK Dan,

I would be more than happy to help you in saving your Smiths, do you know its age and would you consider sending me some pictures for my blog? Thats being said I will email email you a guide for the removal of the door.

David Newman

7/25/2018 07:18:12 am

Thank you MFS for your blog. I am writing from Sydney Australia
I have to replace 16 Smith Patent Floor springs, identical to the picture above, in an 1875 ecclesiastical building in the Sydney CBD. One floor spring is cracked in half. There may be others as well. Other floor springs require adjustment but do not know if this is possible.
I look forward to your reply
David Newman

Rod Fathers link

7/29/2018 01:52:51 pm

Hi David,

Thanks for your interest and comment on my blog. When you say you are replacing the Smiths, are you replacing them or are you looking to repair and continue their use?

They are repairable and I believe they should be, for many of the reasons I have previously stated throughout my blog.

Regarding the adjustment of the other floor springs, most brands are adjustable in many ways, how this is done is generally down to the type of floor spring and the problem you are facing.

My phone number is UK dialing code - 07778157607, unfortunately I had to remove it from my site due to harassment. I am happy to assist in whatever you require and would be interested in taking the Smiths off your hands for re-purposing if your client is adamant they are to be replaced.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards

Rod Fathers

David Newman

8/1/2018 12:27:27 pm

Hi Rod. It was great talking to you. I could feel the passion in your voice from 12,000 miles away.
We are not replacing the Smith floor springs, but renovating the 16 sets, to make good for another 140 years.
I am looking to see who can weld the cast iron springs that has broken in two.
I am also looking to see how to adjust the floor springs for a smooth and quiet operation.
Is the head fixing just a pivot holding the top of the door?
looking forward to letting you know our success.
Regards
David Newman - Sydney, Australia

Rod fathers link

3/24/2019 05:45:11 pm

Hi David, I would not recommend trying to weld spring steel as far as I am aware it becomes weak at the points either side of the weld and will go again, if you care to email me I will advise as best as I am able. Regarding your plan to make them quieter and smoother, if they are working correctly they should already be smooth and quiet, I look forward to hearing from you.

JULIAN MAKEY

11/26/2020 09:38:24 am

Sorry late to this post I have a quick question I have a pair in my 1820 building the plate says 69 princes st aerial 10770 and 10771 I recently used a heat gun to get the paint of the brass not on the base plates but the bottom door holder I have a feeling I may have burned out the grease is there a easy way to re grease/oil without fully dismantling they still swing but a little stiff

Rod Fathers link

3/19/2021 06:15:33 pm

Hi Julian, I have only just seen your post, my apologies. You would have to at least remove the brass decor plate to gain access to the mechanism before either putting in grease or heavy oil. Do not forget to get some sort of lubricant between the pin the door sits on and the collar it protrudes from.

Agatha Pace link

12/13/2020 02:26:54 pm

Hi thanks for sharing this.

Rod Fathers link

3/19/2021 06:16:45 pm

Thank you for your comment.

Marius

8/2/2021 10:01:38 pm

I have 2 Smiths floor units that require servicing, any ideas for a local repairer ? PA168NG Greenock Scotland.

Michael

11/1/2021 06:35:40 am

I Have two Smiths floor units that I purchased with some old doors however have decided not to now use them. They are a rectangle unit with ‘Smiths Spring’ on the bottom of the plate. The internals are the round spring set up.
Not too sure how much they are worth or where the best place to advertise them is. I’m in Australia. Any assistance you could give me would be appreciated.

Smith's Patent Door Spring

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